Our Very Own Rev. Ian Lynch Presides at Real Lesbian Wedding in Second Life
Second Life to be Venue for Real Lesbian Wedding United Church of Christ Pastor From Massachusetts to Preside
Koinonia Congregational Church in Second Life is happy to announce the wedding ceremony of Sophianne Rhode and her partner, Vidalia Shepherd.
Sophianne Rhode is the avatar representation of Kimberly Knight and Vidalia Shepherd is the avatar of LeAnne Browning. The ceremony will be held January 19th, 2007 at 4pm Second Life Time (7 pm Eastern) in the sanctuary.
Pandion Halasy will be the officiant at the ceremony. Pandion is the avatar of Rev. Ian Lynch of Brimfield First Congregational Church (UCC) in Brimfield, Massachusetts and has been an active member of Koinonia
Congregational in Second Life for many months. Kimberly and LeAnne and
their two daughters live in Atlanta, Georgia. Adelph Gustafson and Tecak Oyen will be the best men at the ceremony and Skilly Infinity and Sequioa Pinion will be the best women. Adelph Gustafson is the avatar of John Peterson, third year M.Div student at Candler School of Theology at Emory University and Skilly Infinity is the Second Life avatar name of Kathy Makus, a United Methodist pastor.
Koinonia Congregational Church is an online ministry that is open to all persons regardless of how one identifies oneself in society or internally and likewise regardless of how one represents oneself in Second Life.
Wherever you find yourself on your journey, you are welcome at Koinonia.
http://web.mac.com/seekingsophia/koinonia/Welcome.html
- Stephen Rockwell's blog
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subjects that alienate and divide
I've been trying to work out a way to say this constructively. I'll do my best and please extend me some latitude here. Though Donny and I differ in our political views, we share beliefs related to our views of homosexual behavior and God's view of it.
I am more than willing to stand side by side with everyone else here do work for the rights of churches like Ian's to conduct their ceremonies uniting same-sex couples. I'm willing to defend the rights of homosexuals and work for equality and justice for them.
However, I still hold my personal beliefs about homosexual relationships in the eyes of God and I think that it is likely to do more harm here than good. Is our purpose here to promote homosexual marriages or to unite for the justice and rights?
Consider this. Stephen asks where Jesus teaches against homosexual marriage. He doesn't. He also doesn't teach against marriages between siblings or against plural marriages. My question is this. Would members of church that believed that loving relationships between individuals in these situations (siblings or multiple husbands/wives) could and should have some legal recognition. As long as they held to core tenets of the Christian faith, it seems that we ought to admit them to share in the endeavors of this group. However, because some of their beliefs were not shared by everyone here, I don't think that it would be the best for them to be announcing each time they performed ceremonies that the others in our group considered offensive to God.
Maybe Donny and I are wrong in the way that we interpret the Bible regarding this issue. However, assuming that we are wrong, wouldn't the appropriate Christian reaction be like Paul instructs the church in I Corinthians 10:23-11:1 regarding eating meat sacrificed to idols?
I'm just asking that you not vocalize (here) those things on which we are divided and which don't further the general purpose.
David
i'm not sure who the criticism is directed at
David,
Donny challenged the Biblical interpretation for supporting gay marriage. I offered a challenge right back at him. Donny introduced the topic of gay marriage and the Bible so I think if you aren't looking to go there, you may want to address your comments at him. If you are somehow suggesting that we limit conversation to topics in which people feel differently, I would reject that and I would think you would as well. You have been most welcoming of those who come onto the site from a conservative viewpoint, and we have not rejected their right to speak and discuss.
Let me just say though that CrossLeft is an open and affirming community. Gay folks are welcome here. I was pleased that Ian was an officiant at this service and that Kimberly who is building a progressive Christian second life community wanted share this experience with the broader community. The story is notable for a number of reasons:
1. It happened in second life.
2. One of our featured bloggers was the officiant.
3. She lives in Georgia where she and her partner where gay marriage is illegal while the minister was in Massachusetts is legal.
Your comments about incest are awfully similary to Huckabee suggesting that affirming gay civil rights is some sort of slippery slope towards bestiality. These arguments are troubling at best, more likely demeaning for the two people who of free will wish to enter into loving commitment with each other. Paul also states in I Corinthians that those who
I should also note that IPC is on the record in supporting gay marriage. I don't think any of us feels as though it needs to be divisive or that by supporting gay marriage that we are not futhering the general purpose of social justice.
I'll try to clarify
Would you be against sibling marriages? If so, why? Jesus doesn't teach against it and neither does Paul. Let's assume that there were couples who felt that their true love was their brother or sister and let's also assume that they were willing to take precautionary measures to prevent conception for genetic reasons. Let's also assume that they considered themselves Christians and wanted to have their relationships recognized by our government so that they could share in the rights and privileges enjoyed by other citizens.
I believe that this goes against what the Bible says and I would not be interested in joining in their church, however, I would support their claims to legal rights and privileges as full citizens. Their lifestyle is not threatening the well being of anyone else and I don't see a reason for denying them the freedom to pursue happiness as they see fit. I would also be fine with such individuals participating in CrossLeft, however, I wouldn't feel comfortable with them posting something every time they conducted a wedding ceremony (in first or second life) uniting siblings. This was not a slippery slope argument, but rather just an attempt on my part to use an example that you might find morally objectionable in the way that theological conservatives see homosexual behavior.
Does this help to clarify my point?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have taken the IPC's endorsement of same-sex marriage is related to the right of churches that are interested in performing such marriages to have that right (I don't think there are many Americans who would deny that right) and that same-sex couples should have equal access to the same rights and privileges as traditional couples. I don't think that the IPC's position is a religious declaration suggesting that churches cannot believe that homosexual activity is a sin.
Because there are some here who do believe that homosexual activity is a sin, I am suggesting that those who do not abstain from announcing their participation in events, ceremonies and practices that others here may find offensive in the same manner that Paul asked those who were ok with eating meat sacrificed to idols not to flaunt it in front of those who felt that it was wrong.
I hope that helps.
David
clarifies but doesn't help
David,
Your continued insistence on using the incest argument as a comparison to adult, committed, non-related, loving couples is offensive, to put it more bluntly than my last comparison to Huckabee's besiality argument.
Furthermore, you are asking people not to be or to share who they are. If I got married or had a birthday or graduated from school, I would want to share this with my community. Why should homosexuals not be granted the same rights and privileges here? Why are you asking homosexuals not to be who they are or as you say "flaunt"?
If I was a minister and performing gay marriages was part of my ministry for couples that had been together for years and now could go before God to make their commitment, why wouldn't I talk about? If I was doing so in second life because the laws of their state would not allow them to have a express their commitment in any other way, why shouldn't I let folks know about this great joy?
What's interesting David, is that you have not raised any of these objections when conservatives have come onto the site slamming homosexuals in great judgement. Yet, when we share the great joys of love, marriage and commitment, you then say its being divisive and we shouldn't talk about it.
I, for one, will not tell folks to stop being who they are, not sharing their life's joys or sorrows, and not to share their point of view. You are right about IPC's position, we do not reject churches that think homosexuality is a sin, but we most certainly will not reject those churches, ministers and homosexual couples who join with us. We will affirm their civil rights and their position as God's children.
As my church in Philadelphia says. "Whoever you are, and wherever you find yourself on the walk of faith, you are welcome here to receive the blessings of God so freely given."
marriages between siblings?
There are a number of differences between the way I'm using incestuous relationships between consenting adults in an example and the way that Huckabee uses bestiality.
1. Huckabee's example involves interspecies relations.
2. Whatever animal might be involved in a bestial relationship, would not be an autonomous decision maker.
3. He is suggesting that if homosexual marriages are legally recognized that A. some people will want to marry animals and B. that we will not have any legal grounds to deny such people that right.
I believe that I have said things in the past about not judging homosexuals. http://www.instituteforprogressivechristianity.org/crossleft/?q=node/554...
On this post I am responding to a Christian who is also a homosexual. I say this "I by no means deny your faith or salvation if you are a practicing homosexual. I do not believe that I have the inside track to God's mind, and I actually hope that I'm wrong on this issue. To you and anyone else who has a homosexual orientation, I would say, don't let your sexuality get between you and God."
I will say it again. I don't think that it is my place nor anyone else's to judge practicing homosexuals' relationships with God.
I'm not concerned with any of that here. Let's start over.
Stephen, do you oppose marriages between mutually consenting adult relatives?
David
the main point
Despite your offensive comments comparing homosexual relationships to incest, I'd like to get back to the main point. Despite the fact that you say you are not judging, there's a heck of a lot judgment in the comparision.
The main question here is on your main point that gay folks and those that support them can be on CrossLeft, but that they shouldn't share their life's joys or their viewpoints.
Why is it divisive for gay folks to celebrate the joys of their life on CrossLeft? Why is it divisive for a person of the cloth to talk about their ministry to homosexual couples? Why are you not addressing judgmental conservatives who find their way to the site with a similar admonishment not to address homosexuality?
not dignifying the question
David,
I'm not dignifying the question with a response. Its offensive to homosexuals and those of us who believe in justice and equality for homosexuals.
steve
That is helpful Stephen
Thank you for making those clarifying points. Like I said in a previous comment, I was not planning on discussing homosexuality or same-sex weddings in this context. I hadn't even considered what IPC's position was, I was simply responding to your post about this event.
I may be wrong to gloss over the debate over same-sex marriage at this point, but for me, my denomination, and the state in which I reside, much of the debate is already in the past. My excitement at the moment is the justice work and true building of the beloved community (which is justice work) that can happen (indeed is happening) through on-line social networking.
FWIW I will be writing about it and would like to post it here, since I believe it has some relevance to our work together as well. Perhaps it doesn't and I could simply post it on my personal blog and elsewhere.
be not discouraged
Ian,
Be not discouraged...please continue to post freely about homosexuality or the gay marriage issues. We're all very excited to hear about your work and ministry whether on those issues or the online networking.
What's interesting about the opposition in this case, is that we've had a number folks come onto the site saying that homosexuality is abomination, etc., etc. from a conservative viewpoint, but no opposition was provided at that point on discussing this supposedly divisive issue. We post something about celebrating a marriage...a life long commitment of love made before God and that's somehow divisive.
I think for most folks, its not divisive at all. Even many theological conservatives have accepted gay civil or political rights. Theological progressives have gone further to sanctify gay marriage within their churches. I think we can incorporate both sets of folks as long as we're respectful of each other's point of view.
Went off with a hitch
OK, that is my pathetic wedding joke. It was a bit glitchy, but a moving, beautiful event attended by enough people that we almost crashed the sim. There were a couple of "griefer" attacks during the reception, one that did crash the sim, but all in all it was a joyous time.
Kimberly has described this as a very real joy that has settled over them like a warm quilt.
I intend to blog on this soon as I mentioned previously. Thank you Steve for taking up the general issue of same-sex wedding with Donny. My energy at the moment is toward describing this form of ministry as creative justice in a digital world. Since I'm starting from a position of assuming the validity of same-sex weddings that discussion, while vital, is a distraction for me at the moment. Perhaps I'll find time to come back to it.
Here's a link to a flickr album of wedding photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/valpofan98/sets/72157603755650449/
Blessing what?
In what way is the marriage that Jesus describes (and as being created by God), can two people of the same gender qualify for? Please use scripture to back up a "marriage" between person of the same sex, since this is being espoused on a Christian platform. How can it be progressive to violate the teachings of Christ Jesus?
the challenge
Donny, Please point out the Biblical reference when Jesus speaks against gay marriage. Paul speaks against homosexuality although the concept of folks being biologically homosexual didn't exist in his day. Leviticus also says we should stone homosexuals. But please offer Jesus's teachings on the matter.
So how was it??
I wanted to be there and couldn't, so tell us... how was it??
I'm so proud to "know" you, Ian. And sort of excited that someone other than me spends time at Second Life.
So spill it! Tell all about the wedding! We want DETAILS!!
Woot woot
I told a colleague about this wedding and she described it as justice with fun. It is that indeed. I am SOOOOOO excited to be able to do this. I don't need to tell the group here how real community can be beyond brick and mortar. The people in the wedding party are all working hard (many of us were on-line well past midnight last night) because we love our sisters who are entering this holy covenant and we love our God of justice who blesses this.
I intend to write about this after the fact to point to the idea of a 21st century church free from the edifice complex. I'll post it here with an eye toward helpful criticism for submission to Christian Century or the like.
If you can navigate your way through Second Life, please come to the wedding tonight.