To All Those Wondering
What difference does it make?
There is no doubt in my mind that reincarnation was an accepted explanation of life for the early Christians and that it is biblical. I have introduced the concept with the hope that those readers who are interested will pursue their own research and find out what difference it makes for them. I see no real changes resulting from simply debating a topic … for modern day Americans, “debate” connotes competition, a winner and a loser. What is important is the meaning reincarnation may hold for the individual. Knowledge of reincarnation can grant meaning, purpose, and understanding to our lives. But, that is for each individual to seek out on his/her own.
There is no doubt in my mind that contact with our galactic family has taken place throughout Earth history and that it is depicted in the Bible. I offer the following for your own research if interested. See if it makes a difference to you.
“And Enoch found favor in the presence of God, and disappeared; for God took him away.” (Genesis 5:24) Did Enoch disappear in a space ship? Earth humans considered the extraterrestrials to be “gods” because they are far more advanced in knowledge and technology than we are.
“The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair, so they took them wives of all whom they chose…. There were giants on the earth in those days; and also after that, for the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, and they became giants who in the olden days were mighty men of renown.” (Genesis 6:2,4) Were these giant sons of God extraterrestrials? According to Sheldan Nidle’s description, galactic humans may be up to 7 1/2 feet tall.
“…Melchizedek was king of Salem, the priest of the most high God …. Neither his father nor his mother is recorded in the genealogies; and neither the beginning of his days nor the end of his life; but, like the Son of God, his priesthood abides forever. Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave tithes and paid head tax…. But this man who is not recorded in their genealogies took tithes even from Abraham and blessed him who had received the promises. Beyond dispute, he who was less was blessed by him who was greater than himself.” (Hebrews 7:1,3-4, 6-7) Was Melchizedek a space being who sojourned on Earth for a period of time? He certainly was greater than Abraham, the Patriarch of the three world religions that arise out of the ancient Middle East—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
“And it came to pass, as they still went on and talked, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire, and separated the two; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” (II Kings 2:11) Was this chariot and horses of fire a space ship? Was the whirlwind the ray of energy that beamed up Elijah into the space ship? We learn in verses 5 and 10 of II Kings 2 that Elijah and Elisha knew before hand that Elijah would be leaving Earth. Had Elijah consulted with extraterrestrials and scheduled a day to be picked up? He did not die; he entered a fiery chariot and left Earth.
“And I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud, and a flaming fire and a brightness was round about it, and out of the midst of it there came as it were a figure out of the midst of the fire.” (Ezekiel 1:4) Did Ezekiel see a space ship approaching?
“And he said to me, Son of man, I am sending you to the children of Israel, to a rebellious people….” (Ezekiel 2:3) Remembering that Earth humans considered their extraterrestrial visitors to be “gods,” did a member of our galactic family exit the space ship and call Ezekiel to minister to the Israelites?
“Then the spirit took me up, and I heard behind me the sound of a great rushing …. So the spirit lifted me up and carried me away …. Then I came to the exiles at Telakib, who dwelt by the river Chebar, and I stayed there astonished among them seven days.” (Ezekiel 3:12, 14-15) Did the extraterrestrial take Ezekiel up in his space ship and transport him to Telakib? Dr. R. Cedric Leonard thinks so. Read his article entitled “The Wheels of Ezekiel” at his site.
www.atlantisquest.com/Ezekiel.html
“And when he had spoken these things, he ascended while they were looking at him; a cloud received him and he was hidden from their sight.” (Acts 1:9) A footnote related to this verse, in Lamsa’s translation from the Aramaic of the Peshitta, states: “Until recent times Easterners believed that clouds were living creatures.” Was Jesus beamed up into a space ship—shrouded by a cloud-like formation—as he ascended into the heavens? (According to telepathic information from our galactic family, extraterrestrials create a cloud-like formation around their space ships while in Earth’s atmosphere, particularly when over the United States. Why? Because our military has standing orders to shoot them down whenever spotted. The technology possessed by our galactic family far exceeds our own and they are safe. However, the Galactic Federation of Light avoids confrontation with our military because they come in peace and do not want to engage in battle. They await the time when our new government will declare peace and allow them to land en mass to assist us in re-creating our beautiful planet. Peace is the Way of Love.) Could the extraterrestrials have used this same cloud-like cover while interacting with the ancient Israelites? It appears so.
“And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud, to lead them on the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give then light; so that they might travel by day and by night. The pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night never failed to go before the people.” (Exodus 13:21-22) Did our galactic family lead the Israelites out of Egypt by using a space ship veiled by a cloud? Why would the Middle Easterners believe clouds were living beings, unless they knew them to be space ships?
“And while they [the disciples] looked steadfastly toward heaven as he [Jesus] went up, behold two men stood by them in white robes [white robes signify Ascended Masters]; and they said to them, Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus who has ascended from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as you have seen him ascend into heaven.” (Acts 1:10-11) If Jesus ascended into the heavens in a space ship, then will he return to Earth in a space ship? According to metaphysicians, Jesus, as an Ascended Master, will return—with the other Ascended Masters assigned to Planet Earth—and with the Galactic Federation of Light. Earth awaits a magnificent descent of loving beings to guide us along the Pathway to Ascension.
“And I saw a new heaven and new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passes away; and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.” (Revelation 21:1-2) The New Jerusalem will come down from God; it will not be the present Jerusalem, conquered by war. “New Jerusalem” is the name of a Mother ship that comes to guide Planet Earth and its inhabitants into the awakened consciousness of 5th dimension. Is it the same as Revelation’s “New Jerusalem?” “And I heard a great voice from heaven saying, ‘Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and the very God shall be with them and be their God.” (Revelation 21:3)
Is there evidence of interaction with our galactic family in the Bible? That’s for you to decide in relationship to your own spiritual journey.
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What difference does learning of our galactic family make to social activism?
I quote excerpts from an article by Michael E. Salla, Ph.D. entitled “The Emergence of ‘Track Two’ Galactic Diplomacy with Extraterrestrial Races – The Role of Private Citizens & Groups in Establishing Communications & Agreements With Extraterrestrial Races”
“There is extensive evidence that a number of extraterrestrial races are assisting in the evolution of human consciousness, and communicating with private citizens and groups that are interested in more peaceful and harmonious policies at a global level. These communications and initiatives linking private citizens and groups with some extraterrestrial races suggests the potential for an unofficial form of ‘galactic diplomacy’ to be practiced that complements the official form of galactic diplomacy secretly conducted by government agencies.” ….
“There is persuasive evidence of clandestine official meetings between national governments and extraterrestrial races since at least the 1950s. The most well known involves President Eisenhower meeting with different delegations of extraterrestrial races in secret meetings held at Edwards Air Force base beginning from 1954. [9] These agreements were based on the Eisenhower administration establishing agreements with extraterrestrial races based on the national interest of the US rather than any moral imperative stemming from the profound nature of this initial contact between extraterrestrial races and a major Earth government.”
You may read the entire article at: http://www.galacticdiplomacy.com/
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No difference
Nancy,
You really haven't answered the question I asked about what difference does reincarnation make to our behavior or ethics. The question wasn't meant as part of a debate on the merits of the idea -- or of the merits of the Galactic Family idea. It was only about practical relevance.
In the discussion of Early Church Fathers: Origen and Preexistence of the Soul, I had asked that question about what difference it makes, adding: "Does the doctrine add anything to the 'new commandment' to love as Jesus loved? Or to the Beatitudes, the Lord's Prayer, Jesus as the fulfillment of the Jubilee, and Jesus as Way, Truth, Life? Does anyone think that it makes a difference in how one follows the Wayshower on the Way? My own inclination is that it doesn't. I see it as purely speculative. Can anyone 'bring it down to earth' for me?"
In my response to your The Importance of Our Galactic Family, I again asked "what difference does it make? Is trying to be a follower of Jesus outmoded, obsoleted, insufficient? Do we replace the vision of a fully realized Body of Christ acting in the world with a vision of us all being subsumed into some kind of Galactic Federation?"
Your response that "what is important is the meaning reincarnation may hold for the individual" makes reference to the comfort that belief in reincarnation can give: "Knowledge of reincarnation can grant meaning, purpose, and understanding to our lives." To which I respond, "yes". But so can many other other spiritual and social concepts from many other faiths and traditions. And that personal quest ("for each individual to seek out on his/her own") proceeds without reference or relevance to our shared Christian ethics or activism.
When it comes to relevance to our social activism, you cited a claim that President Eisenhower had secret meetings with delegations of extraterrestrials. Even if that were true, it doesn't speak to our lives as 'progressive Christians'. Our agendas aren't affected.
The most that your source suggests is that we might (via those who are members of "awakened humanity") participate in "unofficial diplomacy" with ETs to complement the alleged official secret galactic diplomacy being conducted by government agencies. This falls far short of bringing the question "down to earth" for me. There's nothing to be done about it, unless someone can set up some meetings or establish some "back channels" for those of us who, however open we may be to the concept, are still "unawakened".
Thus, I conclude that belief or disbelief in reincarnation and/or in the reality of Galactic Family contacts doesn't make any discernible difference to our ethics or to our social activism. If the presence of the Galactic Family hits the news as a verifiable fact, then we would have some real issues. Until then, it seems to me to be very far off-topic, as is reincarnation.
How we read the Bible...
It strikes me that the verses presented here ironically rely on a more literal, less mythical reading of the scripture. Maybe Ezekiel did see a spaceship. Or maybe this was the author's way of conveying a deeper meaning about the presence of God. Such a galactic reading relies on the presumption that indeed that all these things *historically* and *factually* happened, rather than as narratives and mythic stories.
Roman Catholicism on alien life - from the Pope's Astronomer
Steve, Bill and Bo,
For the past 2 days the Associated Press has been carrying a video report from the Castel Gandolpho, the pope's summer residence, site of two telescopes, about the recent comments made by Father Jose Gabriel Funes, a Jesuit priest from Argentina who is the Vatican's chief astronomer. He has been speculating the possible existence of alien life. He reasons that since there are a 100 billion stars in the universe there is a high probablitiy that some form of life may exist beyond that we know here on earth. He adds that such existence would not be in contradiction to the teachings of Roman Catholicism, that any such creatures, in a more or less advanced state of development beyond creatures on this earthly orb, would still be God's creatures.
Hmm does the Vatican know something we don't? Are we are being prepared for accceptance of the whole idea of intelligent alien life, that what Nancy is presenting may be based on fact, that we in fact may be part of a larger "galactic family" ? I don't know. But the RC is not taking any chances, they are actively pursuing the whole idea scientifically.
Food for thought.
Rich
All things bright and beautiful...
... all creatures great and small
Rich,
The Vatican is reasserting the doctrine that God is the creator of the universe and of life -- all life, wherever it may be. There's nothing new in that. The Vatican is simply officially catching up with astronomy and probabilities. A bishop/philosopher/scientist/astronomer in the 14th century, Nicolaus of Cusa, discussed the possibility of intelligent life on the moon and the sun, and thought that the earth wasn't the center of the universe. His ideas weren't considered heretical, just not especially fashionable.
"Hmm does the Vatican know something we don't?"
That's the kind of empty question that's asked by all who speculate on matters where there's no verifiable information. So, of course they could. Which leaves us exactly where we are, confronting the issues of how we are to behave right now in the arena where theology/religion and 'politics' intersect.
Does bringing the possibility of ETs into play help us confront the Rapture-Left Behind-Hagee-Armageddon line of thought and action? I think it merely posits one kind of outside intervention in opposition to another kind, and reduces us to waiting around for others to act.
Thin gruel for thought, I'd say.
However, Wikipedia has an interesting article on the subject, Fermi Paradox. I've also read an interesting piece about the mathematical improbablity of contact with ETs, but I can't find the source right now.
Bill
the difference is
Rich,
I don't think any of us disagreed with the high probability of intelligent life in the universe. The Roman Catholic church should be commended for marrying science with religious belief. They are not mutually exclusive.
I think what people are saying is that this stuff is way off topic. Channeling communications telempathically with aliens? Its a an assertion not based on any grounding in science, theology or common sense.
As Bill said its not really like creating a theology different from Christianity seeking to be guided by life somewhere in the universe.
In any case, it all seems way off topic to me.
Channeling, yes
Steve,
I agree that channelling may be well off our beaten path. Then again any new philosophy or theory takes time to be truly accepted. For example, it took Christianity over 300 years to be offically accepted. Einstein's theories took a generation or more, so I say just keep an open mind.
The question then is what would constitute "proof"? Assuming an advanced life form would not resemble our life form, wouldn't just freak you out if you met one?, assume it was "the devil" or whatever? Would you expect it to say "Hello, I am an alien life form, pleased to meet you!" Hmmm.
Well keep an open mind my friend. (and don't mind me, I'm just messing with your mind a bit! :) ) Stay cool buddy.
Cheers -- and enjoy a refreshing cold one my friend. Have the barkeep put it on my tab!
Rich
open minded yes
Rich good buddy,
I agree with you that progressives need to be open-minded, but no so open minded that our brains fall out.
One can't make claims that can't be substantiated by any logic, theology, science or common sense and expect people to take one seriously.
I'm glad we agree this whole thing is off topic. We have a war to end, a climate to save, and an economy and health care system to fix.
Where's that bar whe you have a tab? I'd take you up on that.
s
uh...yeah...
Okay, I've been out a while and think I just got caught up on at least this issue.
First of all, I think that one of the marks of a progressive Christianity is that it upholds rigorous standards with regards to critical biblical analysis. In a nutshell, that means that one needs to look at the historical and literary evidence when speculating the meaning of the text. To do otherwise is an abuse of the text itself. One example of this is fundamentalism. It's understanding of literal interpretation flies in the face of a thoughtful approach.
I believe you are presenting another example here. There is a difference between truth and fact. While a fact is a form of truth, truth can be relative to the narrative that a person holds, which can be full of things that we hold dear that simply aren't reflective of the reality in which we live. Our narrative truths are important in how we interpret facts. In this case, I hear that you are holding to a narrative truth that includes the importance of what is termed "galactic family." But that doesn't meant that it is factual. In order for it to be accepted by others, facts have to be presented. And quite honestly, there is none.
Historical scholarship presents a much more reasoned approach. When it looks at the biblical narratives through cultural and mythological realities that existed during textual construction. They have a solid claim (with room for variation) for their interpretations.
What you present, is not only unfounded, but also runs contrary to the facts that we know. Therefore, part of the problem you face with your truth claims is that it runs against the grain of the observable. If someone tells me that the table in front of me really is a cloud, then I have to examine that truth claim. If I can put a glass on it and the glass not fall through, then I can say that the truth claim is false. Very simply, the claim runs contrary to the evidence. If one wants to make a truth claim that is not only unfounded but contrary to the facts we have access to, then that person cannot claim that truth to be a part of our factual existence. It is possible to say "I believe this" or "from my perspective" or even "Isn't this an interesting thought," but that person cannot realistically expect other people to consider the claim to be important, of even worthwhile of consideration.
Steve has said that discussion of the galactic family is off-topic. I wholeheartedly agree. I do not believe that it is even worthy of consideration for discussion. While there may be the possibility of life "out there," I believe that the speculation you present is quite frankly absurd. Therefore, I for one do not intend to enter into discussions revolving around the hypothetical galactic family.
Please delete
sorry, hit the button twice.