Statement on Same-Sex Marriage Initiatives
Last night's Theology Discussion focused on the issue of same-sex marriage initiatives. As California has an initiative on this November's ballot, we thought it proper that the CrossLeft community speak out in the whole matter.
Those present (Rich Warden, Bill Peltz and Steve Rockwell) developed a sense that due to the wide variety of opinions/positions on homosexuality we should make a statement presenting a range of perceptions, not a formal position endorsing or opposing the initiative.
From our on-line discussion on homosexuality we have the sense that some of us favor gay marriage, others feel it is a civil matter; such separation of church and state - that no one religious tradition should tell another what to do or that the state should not deny homosexuals the right to marry, civil unions being one solution. Some feel it is a spiritual matter, that civil unions do not go far enough, that marriage is a matter of two consenting adults brought together by Our Creator, living in a committed relationship built upon love. We desired to affirm gay/lesbian people in a manner consistent with our beliefs and our feelings.
As the discussion proceeded we came to the conclusion that we should offer personal testimonies re: our own interactions with gay people and how these interactions altered our perceptions of gay people, overcame our preconceived notions, removed some of the sterotypes we had carried.
Bill Peltz offered a good analogy. He is a congregant in a liberal Episcopal church in a very conservative diocese. On the issue of ordination of women his pastor finally came to support the idea. When Bill asked him how he came to change his mind, he replied, "I didn't change my mind, I changed my heart".
I hope we can come to a place on this whole topic were we can express in a loving way our varying perceptions from both our head (biblical positions, our intellect) and from our hearts (from our personal interactions, our feelings). As Our Creator gave us both a head, intellectual powers and a heart, intuitive powers, we have the twin powers of thought/reason and intuition/faith, to apply to any issue.
We desire to affirm gay/lesbian people. To do so, spiritual guidance can be obtained from the two great commandments; first, to love your Creator/God with all your mind, all your heart and with all your strength and second, to love one another, our neighbor as ourselves.
Let us join in applying our birthright twin powers in developing a statement that may provide guidance to the undecided as they work through their position on same-sex marriage. IMO, as a progressive Chrisitian community it is our spiritual duty to do no less.
Rich
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California a few months back
California a few months back made news when dozens of same sex couples got married there. If a couples state isn't allowing it it's certainly not going to stop them from getting married in another state and coming back. I really think people need to learn to live with it. I'd say that most guys are comfortable with two girls getting married but not two guys which is typical. I've seen some london escorts who were together and oddly enough worked in that sort of business.
The bishop's heart
A brief but significant correction to Rich's citing of my anecdote about changing the heart, not the mind. It was the then-Bishop of the Albany Diocese who, in my hearing, said that to a woman who asked him about his changed position. It happened not long after I had moved to Albany.
Just prior to my move from Illinois, there were only 5 Episcopal dioceses that were holding out against women's ordination. My Illinois diocese, Springfield, was one. So I felt that moving to Albany was like moving from a reactionary frying pan to a reactionary fire. And in my visits to Albany before the move, I had heard the Bishop preach at the Cathedral of All Saints and I hadn't been exactly taken with his words and demeanor. So his change of heart really pleased me. Our gruff Bishop, now Bishop Emeritus, David Ball (who once had been Canon Ball), won my heart that day. I think his words should be a model for us as we consider the relative weightiness of the calls of Mind and Heart (and Spirit).
Addenda: 1.The Diocese of Springfield finally came around on women's ordination, though another Illinois diocese, Quincy, hasn't. (Is there something in the Illinois water, outside of Chicago?) There are still two additional holdouts, Fort Worth TX and San Joaquin CA, even though our Presiding Bishop is named Katharine.
2. San Joaquin has seceded from the Episcopal Church, though "loyalist" remnants are reconstituting the diocese. The issue of homosexual priests and bishops, and homosexual marriage and church blessings of homosexual marriages, was their Last Straw.
3. Both the Albany and Springfield dioceses are in the faction that opposes gay priests and bishops, and are members of an alliance of dissident dioceses. Albany's new bishop, though he's a traditionalist and very opposed to any changes in church doctrine and practices, has said that he's committed to staying in the Episcopal Church USA. Whew. At least we won't go through that final level of bitter division. So, just as it was in Illinois, I'm a member of a "liberal" congregation in a "conservative" diocese. Or should the terminology be "progressive" and "traditional" (or "reactionary")? The labels themselves are imprecise and inherently tendentious. We could use something more objectively descriptive.
Bill
Thank you Bill for the clarification
Bill,
My comment was based on the brief explanation you offered last night. I "took your comment to heart", though (no pun intended :-)). I think it illustrates what Steve, Rev. Roger, Janet, Gary, Angelo and others such as myself are saying. Our Creator/God loves all humanity equally, and sent Jesus to tell us this, to witness to this, in the flesh and bones.
Changing hearts is what, IMO, Jesus came here to do. We are thus challenged to do the same.
I'll add one more personal comment here. IMO, what actions humans take that unites the human family come from knowledge inparted us from Our Creator. Those actions that divide, that teach hate, comes from what we have commonly come to call Satan. God loves and unites, Satan hates and divides. This is, IMO, the real meaning of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It is our challenge to learn how to love, to recognize hate and resist it's false teaching, and to offer love when hate is offered us.
(Lord knows how much of a challenge this has been, and remains, for me. It's far too easy for me to fall into the hate trap! I thank My Creator for sending me Jesus to remind me to love, no matter what the source. Lord help me--.)
Rich
Good Theological Discussion
This sounds like a good theological discussion that you, Bill, and Stephen had. I especially liked what you wrote:
"I hope we can come to a place on this whole topic were we can express in a loving way our varying perceptions from both our head (biblical positions, our intellect) and from our hearts (from our personal interactions, our feelings). As Our Creator gave us both a head, intellectual powers and a heart, intuitive powers, we have the twin powers of thought/reason and intuition/faith, to apply to any issue."
I attended an evangelical church several years ago and in the various discussions on the topic, I found two types of people. One type just had hateful prejudice and used the Bible to justify their prejudice of all gays and lesbians. The other type was against homosexuality because of passages in the Bible, but also had friends and family who are gay, and they sincerely struggled to balance their beliefs against homosexuality and their relationship with their gay friends and family members. I don't agree with either group, but I had more sympathy with the second group than with the first. The people in this second group were kind and conscientious people. But even with this second group, the nature of their beliefs made their relationships with their gay friends more subtly condescending and arms length. And I noticed that there were a lot more of the first group than the second group in the particular church that I once attended.
When I was in high school, I remember a guy named Francis who was openly gay. When he went into the men's locker, he would get picked on even though he didn't do anything, and I always felt sorry for him. When my close friend Eric went out of the closet in the 1990s, he would tell me stories of prejudice and of the guy named Shepherd who was beaten to death in Colorado. My wife and I have close friends, Connie and DJ, who were married in 2004 in the San Francisco weddings. They are very kind to us. But I noticed a few years ago, when we all went out to watch a circus, my wife and I could hold hands and feel safe to show affection for each other. But Connie and DJ were more circumspect and I realized how they would have to be more careful, lest they encounter a situation that would ruin the fun of the night.
My friendship with Eric, Connie, and DJ, the observations of prejudice against Francis and other gay people, the observations that I had in a church several years ago, lead me to support gay rights and to support the same sex marriage initiative. Whenever I get into a conversation with a Christian who is against homosexuality, I tend to fumble because I'm not knowleadgeable enough to support my positions with many Bible passages. But I see a real disconnect between the belief that homosexuality is wrong and the commandment to love God and to love each other.
Angelo