Affirmative action - Is it time for a change?

I believe this has been debated here on CrossLeft in the past, but given recent and past comments by Obama I feel it is warranted to open up this discussion again. Is it time to change the current structure of identity-based affirmative action policies? One might be surprised to hear what Obama has to say about the issue. I for one think that this is an attempt to capture a portion of the white vote that would, in most cases, support such a change. A quote from the attached article, "...Obama’s support among blacks at over 90 percent, and given the popularity of class-based affirmative action among whites, embracing that view could earn him considerably more new white votes than the black votes he might lose."

So is this a politician playing politics or does Obama truly believe that doing away with identity-based affirmative action policies and replacing it with economic based policies is a good idea? When I think of this topic I like to compare it to Socialism in that it sounds great in theory, but it will never work out that way in practice. If identity-based policies were done away with altogether we would be tearing down every wall that has been built against discrimination since the JFK administration enacted such programs in 1961.

I think it would be a grave mistake to completely do away with identity-based affirmative action. I think we need to include one's economic standing along with identity in order to have a more balanced system. At least this is what I believe would be the best solution...

Of course the age old question is...how? What do you think of Obama's rhetoric on the topic? I look forward to your reply's...

The article below is quite lengthy, but worth the read…

-Richard

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080810/pl_politico/12421

Davis Paul Kuhn
Sun Aug 10, 9:24 AM ET

No Democratic candidate for president has ever come so close to calling for an end to the era of identity-based affirmative action as has Barack Obama.

Since 2004, the first black major party nominee from either party has been offering comments suggesting that economic status should match or even trump race and gender as a criteria for who should benefit from the program — though he has yet to propose a specific policy, let alone one that matches his rhetoric.

After four decades of affirmative action, Obama’s historic candidacy itself is seen by some as proof that such programs are no longer needed.

“A lot of non-black people will say that the election of Barack Obama is now proof we don’t need affirmative action,” said Democratic House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn, who is concerned by the notion. Clyburn added that in an Obama administration he’d like to head up an affirmative action task force that would consider class to some degree but maintain the current emphasis on race and gender.

It’s not clear if a President Obama would be interested in such a task force — or, for that matter, if or how he’d change affirmative action, since at different times he’s offered seemingly contradictory opinions on the subject, as has John McCain.

In recent weeks, affirmative action, a hot issue in previous elections, has returned to the presidential political debate, owing to comments by Obama and McCain and ballot initiatives proposing to end racial, ethnic and gender preferences in all taxpayer-funded programs — from university admissions to government contracts — in Arizona, Colorado and Nebraska.

On the one hand, Obama opposes the current state ballot measures (McCain supports them), thus offering at least de facto support for the current policy that gives preference to minorities and women and is rooted in the programs begun by President Kennedy and later significantly expanded by President Nixon.

On the other hand, Obama’s said that his two daughters should not be given preferential treatment, owing to their relatively privileged upbringing, and has called for government to “craft” a policy “in such a way where some of our children who are advantaged aren't getting more favorable treatment than a poor white kid who has struggled more.”

Such hints of a possible new policy focus are a relatively recent development from Obama, who once said that he had “undoubtedly benefited from affirmative action” in his own academic career, though he didn’t specify at what institution he had so benefited. Friends have since recalled him saying that he did not list his race on his Harvard Law School application, though the candidate has said only that "I have no way of knowing whether I was a beneficiary of affirmative action either in my admission to Harvard or my initial election to the Review. If I was, then I certainly am not ashamed of the fact, for I would argue that affirmative action is important precisely because those who benefit typically rise to the challenge when given an opportunity.”

While as a presidential candidate he tends to draw attention to the diversity of the people he met as a community organizer after graduating from Harvard, in his 1995 memoir “Dreams From My Father: A story of race and inheritance,” Obama stresses that he settled in Chicago with the idea of "organizing black folks at the grass roots for change."

As a state senator representing the 13 district on the South Side of Chicago, he deemed traditional, race-oriented affirmative action “absolutely necessary,” and pushed hard for programs that mandated race and gender-based hiring preferences.

In the 2004 Democratic Convention keynote speech that catapulted him onto the national stage, he began publicly offering a broader view on race, famously saying, "There is not a Black America and a White America and Latino America and Asian America — there's the United States of America."
In his 2006 tome, “The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream” — the difference in tone is nicely captured in the subtitle’s repurposing of the word “dream” — he wrote, “An emphasis on universal, as opposed to race-specific, programs isn’t just good policy: It’s also good politics.”

If Obama does propose a new preferences program based on class, not race, poll numbers suggest it would indeed be “good politics.” A Rasmussen poll published last week found that 58 percent of Americans opposed government programs that offered “special treatment to women and minorities,” compared to 26 percent who support such a policy.

Though hardly a top issue for most voters, a majority of Americans believe a candidate’s “position on affirmative action programs is important in determining how they will vote,” according to Rasmussen.

An analysis of surveys by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press shows that a majority of whites are of two minds about affirmative action, with most supporting the idea of government programs that make “special efforts” to “make up for past discrimination” and yet most opposing programs that directly favor minorities and women.

When race and gender are removed from the equation, support increases dramatically: A 2005 Pew poll found that nearly nine out of ten whites reported support for a policy that would help Americans from “low income brackets” to “get ahead.”

While a new, class-based affirmative action would still largely aid those minorities, including blacks, that are overrepresented amongst the poor and working class — in fact, officials in California have attempted to use income as a proxy for race-based preferences after voters disallowed their use in a referenda — Obama has yet to offer any specific plan of his own.

“Obama is missing an enormous opportunity because a lot of those who are skeptical [of him] could close escrow on him if he could give some very visible explanation of his non-raciality,” said Ward Connerly, the former University of California regent who is funding the three anti-affirmative action measures on state ballots this year, and who has previously pursued such measures successfully in California, Washington and Michigan.

Connerly believes such a stance would lose Obama only a small part of his black support while allowing him to “make far larger gains” among whites.

Obama, though, has kept his policy views close to his vest while maintaining his opposition to Connerly, who has fared far better at the ballot box than in the legislative hall.

Obama told a convention of minority journalists in Chicago last month that “I am disappointed that John McCain flipped and changed his position. I think in the past he had been opposed to these kinds of Ward Connerly referenda or initiatives as divisive. And I think he’s right.”

In 1998 McCain did characterize a similar proposed anti-affirmative action measure in Arizona as “divisive,” though that proposal never made it on to the ballot. Over the years however, McCain has generally opposed affirmative action programs, and called for a new, economic-based system to replace the current race and gender-based one.

While ballot initiatives appear to have increased turnout in non-presidential years, “there is precious little evidence that these ballot initiatives drive up turnout in the presidential election,” notes Kenneth Bickers, who directs the political science department at the University of Colorado at Boulder.

For this reason Bickers doesn’t expect the ballot initiatives there to directly impact who wins Colorado, which many expect to be a key swing state this fall.

"I don’t think he is missing an opportunity on affirmative action," said Clyburn. “Affirmative action ought never to be used on simply color," he continued. Rather, it is needed " when the color of one’s skin puts one in a position of being treated unequally."

Bickers, though, believes race-based affirmative action works against Obama: “It racializes the campaign in a sense that Obama has been trying to avoid.”

Even after Obama’s call for a “national conversation on race” following the emergence of inflammatory comments by his longtime pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, he’s engaged the topic of race very selectively, even declining to speak to The New York Times for an article on that very conversation.

Obama, Bickers went on, “needs a very large black turnout in several key states. And if he takes a position that suppresses the enthusiasm of potential voters who are [supporters of] affirmative action, then he’d be in trouble,” he said.

Polls have consistently shown Obama’s support among blacks at over 90 percent, and given the popularity of class-based affirmative action among whites, embracing that view could earn him considerably more new white votes than the black votes he might lose.

Obama, said Bickers, “could use it if he wanted to have his own Sister Souljah moment about affirmative action to redefine it in economic terms and that would play in to a post-racial candidacy."

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hmm... afirmative action economic based vs. race based

Hmmm. I think this issue is much more complex. It has to do with institutional racism and the fact that fourty years of the Civil Rights movement has not made as large of a difference as we might have hoped for there to be equitable representation of all races in all positions nor truly equal opportunity for that to be the case. (I know this for a fact because of my work with HR and my knowledge of the inside of many Fortune companies... not only the positions themselves but also the pipeline is still lagging...)

But Jim as you give a personal story, let me give you one of mine...

Consider this, my father was the only Latino on a staff of social workers and counselors for the state of NY in Monroe county (despite the fact that most of the kids that he was counseling were Latino &/ Black...)

Although he was the best rated among all of the workers by the kids, he almost didn't get the job as a counselor- which would have kept him in a much lower paid job.

You see, even after he was doing the work, he had to take a multiple choice test which he continued to do poorly on...

It was statistically proven in time that white males were able to do much better on this test than people of color or women...

In short he was able to get the job officially because the kids rated him so highly- but he almost did not get it because of that darn test.

Interestingly enough although he did not do so hot on the test, he was the only bi-lingual man with a Master's degree...

I think that we can not dismiss affirmative action or the reality that race and gender still make a difference in our society.

Obama is an outlier. He is an exception. His children will be miles ahead of the rest of us because his father was the Democratic nominee for president and that's a pretty powerful thing to have in your back pocket no matter what color you are, but just because they have that advantage that does not mean that the color of one's skin no longer matters in the world.

One can overcome the hurdle of prejudice, but to not acknowledge that it exists, I think, is a mistake. Why have we not had a Black president to date in the couple of hundred of years of existance of our country? Why have we not had a woman? Why do some people still murmur that although the better candidate Obama might not win?

How can we reach utopia when we are saying that it already exists?

If we want a certain end, we need to acknowledge the present state and the present state is such that we still have a long way to go baby... ;-)

As for that job turning you down for being a white male, I am sorry for that. That does stink; but I hope that you do realize the priviledge/advantage that your gender and your being a 'white' male provide to you in the world most of the time (from a statistical vantage point).

Steve is much better at speaking to these issues from the perspective of a white male than I but it is a very priviledged position to have in today's world. It is my hope, as a Latina, and most importantly as a citizen of the world that all white men get their priviledge and contribute to the world in the knowledge of such priviledge to make it a better place for all of us.

Love,
Kety (Female, Latina, Brown, American)

Jim Ramelis's picture

Economic Afirmative Action

In the early days of affirmative action I applied for a job with the city of Detroit. I filled out an application and brought it to a neighborhood outreach center where they were accepting job applications. The city employee, a white appearing woman, took the application and almost threw it back at me. She said "We are not taking applications from white people".This was in the earliest days of affirmative action before The City of Detroit figured out they at least had to take the job applications of whites, even if they intended to hire no whites, or they might incur law suits and charges of discrimination.

I was hired on the Detroit Fire Department in one of those rigid quota based affirmative action hiring programs. With each trainee class of new firefighters, so many positions were allotted for each race or ethnic group. Thus white males competed against only other white males, Latino Males competed against only other Latino males for positions in each class, etc .Interestingly enough I came on with some of the first female firefighters. As the academy proceeded the physical requirements for graduating changed constantly if the females couldn’t do something. We are talking about some real basic things here too. I remember we had to raise a large heavy ladder by ourselves , crawl into a window, pick up a 150 lb. dummy, put the dummy on our back, and come back down the ladder. Very basic job preparation for a firefighter. The women couldn’t do it so it was eliminated as a job requirement. We performed the exercise but it was no longer a prerequisite to graduate from the academy. I hope they have changed that in Detroit. I later did some firefighting in California and the women had to do everything the men could do or they were out. When you are talking about people dying if you can’t perform the basics of the job then it has to be that way. The women in California were quite fit and did their job well, by the way. in Detroit’s defense, this was the first bunch of female fighters to get hired and I am sure they were working out a lot of wrinkles.

First, let me tell you I am not bitter but both of these stories illustrate affirmative action gone wild and why the Democrats have lost a generation of white working class males. Yes, having a job application shoved back at you because you are the wrong color hurts. Yes scoring much higher on a test for a similar position as someone else and not getting the job because of the color of your skin is not a good feeling. I have been there and done that and I am not an older African American from the old days of the segregated south.

Having said all that I do support inclusive policies in hiring. Cities like Detroit HAVE to have Africa American police and fire personnel, etc. We can’t discriminate based on gender and some woman can do firefighting and many women can do police work. Those career paths have to be open to them.

I whole heartedly support affirmative action based on economics. Obama’s idea is brilliant and would go a long way towards healing the bitterness that so many whites have in regards to affirmative action. If a poverty stricken white would have equal footing with minorities when applying for jobs, that would certainly be fair and for our focus group here at Crossleft, a very Christian concept.